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	<title>Comments for VCritical</title>
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	<link>http://www.vcritical.com</link>
	<description>Informed Virtualization Criticism</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:29:07 -0700</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s not Hyper-V &#8212; it&#8217;s the drivers! by Anton Zhbankov</title>
		<link>http://www.vcritical.com/2010/03/its-not-hyper-v-its-the-drivers/#comment-10013</link>
		<dc:creator>Anton Zhbankov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vcritical.com/?p=2409#comment-10013</guid>
		<description>Another MS marketing bullshit in Russia: http://virt.cnews.ru/info

*Virtualization* championship

Here are rules:
  Number of servers - 1 point for server, 5 points max
  Hyper-V - 10 points
  Hyper-V R2 - 10 points
  System Center - 5 points
  High Availability - 3 points
  Web server - 5 points

100 hosts vSphere project with High Availability and Site Disaster Recovery will lose 18 to 25 to Hyper-V project with 2 low-end hosts and 5-6 VMs.

What is it? It&#039;s not just a usual marketing bullshit, it&#039;s highly purified and concentrated bullshit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another MS marketing bullshit in Russia: <a href="http://virt.cnews.ru/info" rel="nofollow">http://virt.cnews.ru/info</a></p>
<p>*Virtualization* championship</p>
<p>Here are rules:<br />
  Number of servers &#8211; 1 point for server, 5 points max<br />
  Hyper-V &#8211; 10 points<br />
  Hyper-V R2 &#8211; 10 points<br />
  System Center &#8211; 5 points<br />
  High Availability &#8211; 3 points<br />
  Web server &#8211; 5 points</p>
<p>100 hosts vSphere project with High Availability and Site Disaster Recovery will lose 18 to 25 to Hyper-V project with 2 low-end hosts and 5-6 VMs.</p>
<p>What is it? It&#8217;s not just a usual marketing bullshit, it&#8217;s highly purified and concentrated bullshit.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s not Hyper-V &#8212; it&#8217;s the drivers! by Anton Zhbankov</title>
		<link>http://www.vcritical.com/2010/03/its-not-hyper-v-its-the-drivers/#comment-10009</link>
		<dc:creator>Anton Zhbankov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vcritical.com/?p=2409#comment-10009</guid>
		<description>Grigory, what you find strange - that VMware published less cases than Microsoft?

1) Cases for big companies are not always big cases.
2) It is no strange at all that after 2 years of very aggressive marketing including lies Microsoft has some cases. 

It wouldn&#039;t be news for you that most such decisions are made by top-management for political reasons or under influence of professional sales and there was no technical comparisons, no technical experts were asked etc.

I said what I heard, nothing more.

After all Hyper-V, especially R2, is not THAT bad solution, but it seriously lacks a lot of features that vSphere has. As Eric said problem with drivers and patches are not THAT bad with Hyper-V, but it exists! We&#039;re engineers, so let all the marketing bullshit be thrown away.

Actually it is not Hyper-V we discuss 90% of time in such conversations, but Microsoft marketing statements about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grigory, what you find strange &#8211; that VMware published less cases than Microsoft?</p>
<p>1) Cases for big companies are not always big cases.<br />
2) It is no strange at all that after 2 years of very aggressive marketing including lies Microsoft has some cases. </p>
<p>It wouldn&#8217;t be news for you that most such decisions are made by top-management for political reasons or under influence of professional sales and there was no technical comparisons, no technical experts were asked etc.</p>
<p>I said what I heard, nothing more.</p>
<p>After all Hyper-V, especially R2, is not THAT bad solution, but it seriously lacks a lot of features that vSphere has. As Eric said problem with drivers and patches are not THAT bad with Hyper-V, but it exists! We&#8217;re engineers, so let all the marketing bullshit be thrown away.</p>
<p>Actually it is not Hyper-V we discuss 90% of time in such conversations, but Microsoft marketing statements about it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s not Hyper-V &#8212; it&#8217;s the drivers! by Grigory Orlov</title>
		<link>http://www.vcritical.com/2010/03/its-not-hyper-v-its-the-drivers/#comment-10005</link>
		<dc:creator>Grigory Orlov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vcritical.com/?p=2409#comment-10005</guid>
		<description>&gt;There is one Hyper-V installation in Russia that was shown by MS as perfect case, but…
Strange, but here (http://www.microsoft.com/casestudies/Case_Study_Search_Results.aspx?Type=1&amp;ProTaxID=14973&amp;CouTaxID=1489&amp;LangID=64) I can found 19 cases with Hyper-V, half of it - cases for big companies (like GazPromNeft) - you can compare with only six cases for VMware in Russia (http://www.vmware.com/a/customers/country/178/Russian+Federation).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;There is one Hyper-V installation in Russia that was shown by MS as perfect case, but…<br />
Strange, but here (<a href="http://www.microsoft.com/casestudies/Case_Study_Search_Results.aspx?Type=1&amp;ProTaxID=14973&amp;CouTaxID=1489&amp;LangID=64" rel="nofollow">http://www.microsoft.com/casestudies/Case_Study_Search_Results.aspx?Type=1&amp;ProTaxID=14973&amp;CouTaxID=1489&amp;LangID=64</a>) I can found 19 cases with Hyper-V, half of it &#8211; cases for big companies (like GazPromNeft) &#8211; you can compare with only six cases for VMware in Russia (<a href="http://www.vmware.com/a/customers/country/178/Russian+Federation" rel="nofollow">http://www.vmware.com/a/customers/country/178/Russian+Federation</a>).</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s not Hyper-V &#8212; it&#8217;s the drivers! by Nik Simpson</title>
		<link>http://www.vcritical.com/2010/03/its-not-hyper-v-its-the-drivers/#comment-9967</link>
		<dc:creator>Nik Simpson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:39:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vcritical.com/?p=2409#comment-9967</guid>
		<description>Two points,

1. The slide showing those driver crash statistics includes the desktop versions of Windows where bad drivers or flaky hardware are much more common.

2. The %age is useless anyway. What you care about is frequency. Let&#039;s say I have a server OS that crashes ten times in a year, with seven of them related to driver problems, now somebody wants me to run a server OS that crashes 100 times a year, with 70 of them due to driver problems. Both have the same percentage of crashes related to drivers, but I know which one I&#039;d want!

Frankly, I&#039;d beamazed if crashes due to device drivers wasn&#039;t the case for the majority of crashes in any x86 OS, that&#039;s where you get closest to the hardware and where errors are almost invariably unrecoverable for the OS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two points,</p>
<p>1. The slide showing those driver crash statistics includes the desktop versions of Windows where bad drivers or flaky hardware are much more common.</p>
<p>2. The %age is useless anyway. What you care about is frequency. Let&#8217;s say I have a server OS that crashes ten times in a year, with seven of them related to driver problems, now somebody wants me to run a server OS that crashes 100 times a year, with 70 of them due to driver problems. Both have the same percentage of crashes related to drivers, but I know which one I&#8217;d want!</p>
<p>Frankly, I&#8217;d beamazed if crashes due to device drivers wasn&#8217;t the case for the majority of crashes in any x86 OS, that&#8217;s where you get closest to the hardware and where errors are almost invariably unrecoverable for the OS.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s not Hyper-V &#8212; it&#8217;s the drivers! by uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://www.vcritical.com/2010/03/its-not-hyper-v-its-the-drivers/#comment-9954</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 14:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vcritical.com/?p=2409#comment-9954</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by lamw: RT @eric_gray: VCritical: It&#039;s not Hyper-V -- it&#039;s the drivers! http://bit.ly/a6OUoh...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by lamw: RT @eric_gray: VCritical: It&#8217;s not Hyper-V &#8212; it&#8217;s the drivers! <a href="http://bit.ly/a6OUoh.." rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/a6OUoh..</a>.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s not Hyper-V &#8212; it&#8217;s the drivers! by Rob McShinksy</title>
		<link>http://www.vcritical.com/2010/03/its-not-hyper-v-its-the-drivers/#comment-9951</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob McShinksy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 12:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vcritical.com/?p=2409#comment-9951</guid>
		<description>Seems a little this article is a little bit of a soap box Eric.  Love the site, but fact is, with any Hypervisor upgrade or any upgrade on any platform there can be issues drivers or not.  VMware is no stranger to this fact. I will agree that Microsoft has had driver issues in the past, but its mass number or hardware it &quot;can&quot; install Hyper-V on is both a strength and a weekness and people definately push this limit.  In a large virtual enterprise environment, I would expect that there would be upgrade testing on exact hardware with appropriate backout plans.  The latter should always be considered to make sure downtime is reduced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems a little this article is a little bit of a soap box Eric.  Love the site, but fact is, with any Hypervisor upgrade or any upgrade on any platform there can be issues drivers or not.  VMware is no stranger to this fact. I will agree that Microsoft has had driver issues in the past, but its mass number or hardware it &#8220;can&#8221; install Hyper-V on is both a strength and a weekness and people definately push this limit.  In a large virtual enterprise environment, I would expect that there would be upgrade testing on exact hardware with appropriate backout plans.  The latter should always be considered to make sure downtime is reduced.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s not Hyper-V &#8212; it&#8217;s the drivers! by Eric Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.vcritical.com/2010/03/its-not-hyper-v-its-the-drivers/#comment-9928</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vcritical.com/?p=2409#comment-9928</guid>
		<description>Great discussion -- I really appreciate that we could have a debate like this without dipping into personal attacks.

Fernando, Anton: you guys are the best.  Thanks for being Friends of VCritical(tm).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion &#8212; I really appreciate that we could have a debate like this without dipping into personal attacks.</p>
<p>Fernando, Anton: you guys are the best.  Thanks for being Friends of VCritical(tm).</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s not Hyper-V &#8212; it&#8217;s the drivers! by Eric Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.vcritical.com/2010/03/its-not-hyper-v-its-the-drivers/#comment-9927</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vcritical.com/?p=2409#comment-9927</guid>
		<description>I hear that Live Migration really flies over 10Gb Token Ring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear that Live Migration really flies over 10Gb Token Ring.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s not Hyper-V &#8212; it&#8217;s the drivers! by Eric Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.vcritical.com/2010/03/its-not-hyper-v-its-the-drivers/#comment-9926</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:13:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vcritical.com/?p=2409#comment-9926</guid>
		<description>If I gave you the impression that this article was about extrapolating the absolute quantity of system crashes and that ESX has fewer than Windows, then I need to be more clear next time.

I am trying to get people to think about Hyper-V as part of an irreducibly complex system that depends on Windows drivers, kernel, networking, and other services to function.

Last month there was a fair amount of &quot;first Hyper-V patch ever!&quot; rhetoric, which completely dismisses the reality that the module that consists of the Windows hypervisor is not an autonomous system -- the rest of the Windows OS is just as much a part of the hypervisor host.  This is not a patching discussion, so I will stop there.

I do find it amusing that you are so quick to jump on me about misusing numbers when Microsoft execs have been telling bold-faced lies about Hyper-V stats since the beginning.  &quot;One million Hyper-V downloads&quot; and &quot;24% market share after one month&quot; are two favorites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I gave you the impression that this article was about extrapolating the absolute quantity of system crashes and that ESX has fewer than Windows, then I need to be more clear next time.</p>
<p>I am trying to get people to think about Hyper-V as part of an irreducibly complex system that depends on Windows drivers, kernel, networking, and other services to function.</p>
<p>Last month there was a fair amount of &#8220;first Hyper-V patch ever!&#8221; rhetoric, which completely dismisses the reality that the module that consists of the Windows hypervisor is not an autonomous system &#8212; the rest of the Windows OS is just as much a part of the hypervisor host.  This is not a patching discussion, so I will stop there.</p>
<p>I do find it amusing that you are so quick to jump on me about misusing numbers when Microsoft execs have been telling bold-faced lies about Hyper-V stats since the beginning.  &#8220;One million Hyper-V downloads&#8221; and &#8220;24% market share after one month&#8221; are two favorites.</p>
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		<title>Comment on It&#8217;s not Hyper-V &#8212; it&#8217;s the drivers! by Eric Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.vcritical.com/2010/03/its-not-hyper-v-its-the-drivers/#comment-9925</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vcritical.com/?p=2409#comment-9925</guid>
		<description>That was one of the funniest comments I have seen.  Thanks for your contribution!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was one of the funniest comments I have seen.  Thanks for your contribution!</p>
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